A question I've been meaning to ask for a while: is carbon/epoxy really necessary for Mini40 hulls. I started using this combination and was happy with the results, but the hulls of my most recent boat (not made by me) are made from glass chopstrand mat /polyester resin, and they seem sufficiently rigid and light enough to me. At the scale we are working at is the extra rigidity and reduced weight of carbon/epoxy a real advantage?
Hull material for Mini40s
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multihull40
User
Difficult to say..., but when you analyse the influance of weight/ volume to the waterfriction,It's showing in this direction...
-Lowest possible buildingweight with high mechanical properties gives you freedom to reduce floatvolume and wallthickness(weight) and waterfriction....
Rene
GER530
-Lowest possible buildingweight with high mechanical properties gives you freedom to reduce floatvolume and wallthickness(weight) and waterfriction....
Rene
GER530
My experience:
aslong as you are creating a normal Mini40, glass fibre actually suffices (its advantages of price, more flexible than carbon, ie. not braking but bending if need be and no influence on RC signal are actually advantages)
If you scale to 2M carbon is the only way of choice! Glassfibre is simply to heavy or 2 layers of glass 163gr/m2 not stiff enough.
On Mini40 2 layers of 163 glass are still acceptable and some of us build with 50gr outer layer, then 2 layers 110gr with some compound material inside, this is stiff enough.
Target weight should be well below 3kg to be competitive...
This is doable with Glass fibres on Mini40 scale!
So if money counts, go for glass, if you experiment, go for glass, if you know what you are doing, Carbon might give you the extra you are looking for!
Eric
aslong as you are creating a normal Mini40, glass fibre actually suffices (its advantages of price, more flexible than carbon, ie. not braking but bending if need be and no influence on RC signal are actually advantages)
If you scale to 2M carbon is the only way of choice! Glassfibre is simply to heavy or 2 layers of glass 163gr/m2 not stiff enough.
On Mini40 2 layers of 163 glass are still acceptable and some of us build with 50gr outer layer, then 2 layers 110gr with some compound material inside, this is stiff enough.
Target weight should be well below 3kg to be competitive...
This is doable with Glass fibres on Mini40 scale!
So if money counts, go for glass, if you experiment, go for glass, if you know what you are doing, Carbon might give you the extra you are looking for!
Eric
multihull40
User
Eric,yes you are talking about 400 to 500gr weight for one float in grp for Mini40.
The weightreduktion in CFK is about 25% less.
The total weight is varying depending from the given moulded surface quality and needet finishingefforts with filler,sanding and coats to get a smoth surfacequality in both alternative materials...
That was my outcome...
Rene
The weightreduktion in CFK is about 25% less.
The total weight is varying depending from the given moulded surface quality and needet finishingefforts with filler,sanding and coats to get a smoth surfacequality in both alternative materials...
That was my outcome...
Rene
110gr /m2 Glassfiber are the same weight as 110 gr Carbon fiber...
so no Rene, Carbon on the same weights/layer is NOT lighter...
That is the point I tried to make: in Mini40 proportions you are able with a 2 layer setup to reach to sufficient stiffness by using Glassfiber
Carbon is in my eyes only needed if you need an absolute stiff setup (foiler)
Eric
so no Rene, Carbon on the same weights/layer is NOT lighter...
That is the point I tried to make: in Mini40 proportions you are able with a 2 layer setup to reach to sufficient stiffness by using Glassfiber
Carbon is in my eyes only needed if you need an absolute stiff setup (foiler)
Eric
aardvark_issues
User
Or the central portion of a trimaran main hull where you need loads of torsional stiffness. And crossbeams.
Everything else is just keeping the water out.
Everything else is just keeping the water out.
multihull40
User
Who is working with 120gr. GRP alone?
What I have used is minimum the dubble with partiell CFK strenghslayers or third in total...
Also your discriped two layers 163gr with 50gr on top is a bid more Eric. And I measured between 400 and 500gr. readypainted ad the end...And this can be compared in strength through two 90 gr. CFK plus one 50gr. GRP layers.
I made good experience with 2 times 160g glass or 1 time 200g carbon or 2 times 93g carbon. The 93g is by far the best for the end result but very expensive. The glass boat has the best feel when handling it. Seems like serious stuff and not fragile at all. It is heavier though. I am right now building the A-spread boat where I used 160g A-Spread (carbon) with a two layers of 49g glass for some thickness.
In the end carbon is the way to go I think. It is light and stiff. Glass is easiest to laminate and you'll get a tough boat.
Chris
In the end carbon is the way to go I think. It is light and stiff. Glass is easiest to laminate and you'll get a tough boat.
Chris
multihull40
User
Chris,yes i think the same...
When I compare the given physical figures by R&G in tensilestrengh e.t.c. with possible laminate/epoxyresin combination weights with GRP and CFK.
When I compare the given physical figures by R&G in tensilestrengh e.t.c. with possible laminate/epoxyresin combination weights with GRP and CFK.
Breizh punisher
User
Hi,
This what we do with success since many years for our Mini40 and 2M, full carbon is not obligatory and finally too expensive
This what we do with success since many years for our Mini40 and 2M, full carbon is not obligatory and finally too expensive
multihull40
User
See here at the pic a very good surfacequality..and a combination between CFK strenghlayers and GRP...Weight unfinished at the float noticed with 260gr? High tec building...
Breizh punisher
User
Float: 200 gr and 211 gr
Main hull: 340 gr
RTS with first suit: 2,5 Kg with heavy battery
Main hull: 340 gr
RTS with first suit: 2,5 Kg with heavy battery
multihull40
User
@very good result,which GRP and CFK is used?
GRP180gr/ CFK90gr.?
GRP180gr/ CFK90gr.?
Breizh punisher
User
-Wet lay up method without vaccum
-GRP 106 gr + GRP 160 gr
-GRP 106 gr + CFK 200 gr between the cross beam
-few UD 125 gr .......
multihull40
User
Very good, thanks for your information...
